Do Fast First

Oliver Schabenberger is Chief Innovation Officer at SingleStore. He is a former academian and seasoned technology executive with more than 20 years global experience in data management, advanced analytics and AI. Oliver formerly served as COO and CTO of SAS, where he lead the design, development and go to-market-effort of massively scaleable analytic tools and solutions and helped organisations become more data driven. He is a fellow of the American Statistical Association, has co-authored three books, and earned Ph.D and M.S. degrees from Virginia Tech.

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Interview transcript

Hadley: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. Oliver. It's an absolute honor to have you on. 

[00:00:04] Oliver: [00:00:04] Thank you, Hadley. I'm delighted to be here. I'm delighted to be on a curious life. And I'm curious what we're going to talk about in this podcast. 

[00:00:13] Hadley: [00:00:13] Well, as you know, like Peter pan shadow, we're going to go off and find the essence of Oliver today.

[00:00:20] Oliver: [00:00:20] I'm curious, curious what that essence is.

[00:00:23]Hadley: [00:00:23] Let's do it. So, you know, this is a show where we look for a window into the lives of our guests. What makes you tick and, and essentially to understand the essence of you and to understand that the trait of curiosity has impacted your life in Korea. So how we do that is we imagine that we sitting around a campfire sharing stories about our life and tag.

[00:00:44] You all right. So where we'll start is where you were born, whether you had siblings, you know, what were your parents like? What was your early life like? And we'll take that all the way through to today and onto tomorrow. But before we do that, the question that I ask all my guests is what does curiosity mean?

[00:01:00] Well, I think curiosity is something in eight and all humans to different degrees. To me, it's a quality that relates to exploration, uh, inquisition and learning, you know, the drive to find out about something it's really the pursuit of knowledge. I sometimes call it lifelong learning. Um, but to me, it's about the strive to continuously improve and get.

[00:01:26] Better at something. Awesome. 

[00:01:28] And do you, do you think that's innate in children and suppressed as you get older or just inmate and the individual? I think it's 

[00:01:36] Oliver: [00:01:36] innate in the individual. Um, but I think you can suppress it and, and you could, could block us around it. And I think we should encourage the opposite.

[00:01:46] Um, for example, when we, when we look at the qualities we like to see in individuals, we work for, we went from defining skills to emotional quotient, and today it's also something called the adaptability quotient. And that's really the, your ability to ask what if questions instead of what is right. And so what would happen if, what would happen if your top five customers leave you tomorrow?

[00:02:14] How would you deal with this? The ability to explore something. Overexploiting something and there is an immediate sense of, okay, what do I have available as technology right now? What have we built in the past? Let's start with that and build on top of that. That's exploitation, right? That's building on what you already know versus, okay.

[00:02:35] Let's step back. Let's get, give our curiosity some room to roam and imagine what it would be. And sometimes you start from marketing, you start from scratch and you can actually get you to, to where you need to go faster because you're not encumbered and you're not weighted down 

[00:02:54] Hadley: [00:02:54] by preconceptions, I guess.

[00:02:56] Oliver: [00:02:56] Yeah. And the things you've built in the past, you know, the assumption that everything I've done before needs to be reflected in what I do now, 

[00:03:01] Hadley: [00:03:01] that's true. Would you say curiosity is a kind of essential trait for innovation to thrive? 

[00:03:07] Oliver: [00:03:07] Part of it? Innovation is actually my definition of it is to transform curiosity and creativity.

[00:03:14] Into value. And there's a lot in those few words to unpack creativity is really that's what creates the spark. You know, the ideation, my curiosity drives me to explore something and then, uh, creativity, uh, um, uh, generates a novel idea, but creativity by itself, something novel to me, it's not innovation.

[00:03:38] Innovation has to be tied to a value, something I want to pursue in an organization. It could be monetary value could be valuation of a company. It could be the purpose. The reason why I'm doing that to me, if it's very simple. If I asked myself with everything I do every day, I get better and I get better as an individual, then we get better as an organization.

[00:04:03] If we get better as a, as a society, do I 

[00:04:06] Hadley: [00:04:06] know more today than I did yesterday? Yeah. 

[00:04:09] Oliver: [00:04:09] Correct. The powerful thing is that you don't compare yourself to others. You compare yourself to yourself. I love that. Am I a better speaker today than I was two months ago? Am I a better leader? Am I playing an instrument better than I did?

[00:04:24] Six months ago? That to me matters, that is the continuous improvement. I would may pick up woodworking and I will never be a master carpenter, but I can hopefully build furniture in six months better than I do today. And that to me is incredibly satisfying that journey. 

[00:04:43] Hadley: [00:04:43] But, um, but I think comparing yourself against yourself yesterday is a fantastic way of going about growth.

[00:04:51] Personal. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:04:53] Oliver: [00:04:53] That is to me, the manifestation of a growth mindset. 

[00:04:57] Hadley: [00:04:57] Go back to something you said earlier, would you say then that curiosity is, is really finding the question and creativity is how you would go about answering those questions? 

[00:05:08] Oliver: [00:05:08] Curiosity is what makes me pursue a question. Um, once we did dig into something creates more knowledge by doing so, and creativity is how I take that new knowledge and turn it into something interesting and novel.

[00:05:25] So curiosity is, I might be curious about finding out about electric cars. Oh, I want to broaden my horizon. What's there to know what do I need to know about electric cars? A specific curiosity would be, I want to know exactly what the, how the batteries work on an electric car going deep, right? And so you can be curious without a problem to solve.

[00:05:47] Curiosity does not need a problem, but it helps off. It's often triggered that, okay, I need to accomplish something. I have a problem to solve something needs to be approved. And because of that, we start that exploration and we start pursuing knowledge and learning about something. And then there has to be some somewhere else.

[00:06:05] So sort of a creative spark, an idea solution to the problem at the end. But I think curiosity by itself without a problem is incredibly useful. 

[00:06:15] Hadley: [00:06:15] I'm curious about something and going deeper within something kind of puts you into a frame of mind doing to, uh, a framework that sparks an idea of, Hey, now that I know this, now that my knowledge is more complete in an area, I might tie it to something else that I've learned before.

[00:06:31] And Hey, now I can bring these two things together and it's innovation, right? 

[00:06:36] Oliver: [00:06:36] I found that innovation teams are, um, very productive if they have the right blend of this general curiosity and specific curiosity, um, about going after a specific problem, but then allowing themselves of their curiosity to roll and let the curiosity be curious.

[00:06:56] Um, so I work really well with engineers that, um, know exactly. What's going on in the engine and how to improve the engine and go deep and sometimes just step back. And maybe it's part, because I don't have formal training in a lot of the things that I'm doing, then I asked different questions. I said, what if, what if we could hook up this system with that system that says they have never been combined, but what would happen if 

[00:07:23] Hadley: [00:07:23] sometimes people are restricted by not wanting to expose themselves when actually most of the time everybody around you is asking the same question, you know?

[00:07:34] And, and I've found that that having the confidence to simply ask means that very quickly, you, you accumulate knowledge that might not be as deep as each composite part, but the value is in understanding the whole. So the question is, do you think that a lack of self-confidence sometimes can stop people from asking questions?

[00:07:57] Oliver: [00:07:57] Um, yeah. So I don't know if it's lack of self-confidence or if it's, um, Not being vulnerable enough. There's a certain vulnerability that's required to think big because he might, this might not work. And, uh, this, this may have no legs at all. You know, as project or combining these technologies, it's just not meaningful.

[00:08:18] It shouldn't be done or can't be done. Um, but again, we sometimes founding ourselves, but by the things we know how to build this, or this would be really, really hard. Ooh, this would be a really tough project. Yes. I mean, that's why we call them. It's why we call them moonshots. That's what we don't do that every day.

[00:08:39] These are big bets. Um, so the trick is to allow yourself, to explore, allow yourself to get started and build in the, the, the, the, the milestones and the triggers and the decision points that tell you. Yeah, that was the best bad idea we've had all week, sir. And admit that and stopped doing it. But you've learned something in the process.

[00:09:04] You've probably learned something about what your technology can or cannot do or what is possible. It's not possible you rule hypotheses and you better for it. 

[00:09:12] Hadley: [00:09:12] So, so now, now let's find out the path that got you to this thinking. So give us a little bit of insight into the young Oliver. And family life.

[00:09:23] Oliver: [00:09:23] Okay. Yeah. I was born in 1965 in Germany, the black forest. Um, I have two brothers I'm the middle child, middle child syndrome, which means that I know how to navigate extremes. Um, um, I'm generation X. I grew up in a very loving family in the black forest. I went to, you know, normal schooling and in, in Germany I've started school actually a year earlier than, than my peers.

[00:09:50] There was an aptitude test with, uh, I would be able to start school at age five more than I think age six, which was normal. And for some odd reason, I passed it. And so for 13 years throughout my schooling in Germany, I was always one year younger than everyone, which was interesting experience. When I graduated, when I got my I'll be to us, it's called in Germany, uh, on a grad from high school.

[00:10:14] I was also a year younger than everyone else. And I'm too young to serve in the military as what's required at the time. So I got to, uh, start my first education and post, uh, I'll be to education. Um, and so that was actually very fortuitous for me. So I could, uh, I could go through those four years of education.

[00:10:37] And then actually by the time I got to the next, uh, Waypoint, my younger brother was kind enough to have served me. Um, so I was continue on right away. I choose a profession at the time I choose to study something. I remember I was sitting on the. And the portrait of my dad and we were talking about, uh, what paths should I choose?

[00:10:57] And, uh, he hunted, he was a hobby Hunter in, in, in Germany. And I like to be out in the woods with him and maybe it was part of pleasing dad. Um, and I choose forestry as a, as my professional path. 

[00:11:13] Hadley: [00:11:13] I see. So, so, so just, just to pick up on something there. So, so you said to please, dad, tell us a bit more about your parents and their influence, 

[00:11:21] Oliver: [00:11:21] loving parents, wonderful protect the childhood.

[00:11:24] You know, um, one of the things that I always remember to this day is my mom. My mom's heard when she was not able to pursue the kind of education that you wanted. Do you want to go to college? And that was not possible for her. And so she was determined. That her kids would have any educational opportunity.

[00:11:46] There is we can study anything we want, um, for as long as we want, whatever discipline. And, um, that was just wonderful influence and, and the support we got for that. So I was lucky to go through two post-graduate, uh, experiences in, in Germany and then come to the United States for a doctorate. And, um, I really study until I was about age 30.

[00:12:11] So. Put it together. It was 25 years. Wow. But when I went to school non-stop education, 

[00:12:18] Hadley: [00:12:18] would you say that, that your mom and kind of the drive behind that was, was a big influence in you, your passion and love for the world of academia? Yes. 

[00:12:27] Oliver: [00:12:27] And for learning and for learning and for there's always something else to be picked up.

[00:12:32] So, you know, today, our chief innovation officer, a single store, a software company, a database company before I was CEO and CTO, SAS and analytics company. And I started in forestry. So there's how, how do you bridge that? So when I look back and it's, when you look in the rear view mirror, it all makes a lot of sense, right?

[00:12:53] It's like, Oh yeah, this was that decision that led me from here to there. And it it's, it doesn't look like, um, such a strange path. But if you, if you had a time machine and you would go back and think about a conversation I had with my dad at age 17, You couldn't plop that. So I tell 

[00:13:11] Hadley: [00:13:11] you what let's take that time machine back to when you were kids.

[00:13:14] So let's, let's get on that time machine. Let's go back. So, so we have a young lot of a loving house, middle child syndrome, and, you know, the sense of, of lifelong learning and curiosity instilled and encouraged within you as a child. Right. So, so younger life. And I guess, as you say, normal schooling, and I'm assuming that's all the way through, through primary school as well as through high school.

[00:13:39] Yeah. Is there anything in that kind of early life that you, that you would say sparks a memory of how curiosity has played a part, um, into creating one of those memorable moments? Or do we go to that point where you're 17 in this conversation with your dad? How do we get to that point? I 

[00:13:56] Oliver: [00:13:56] don't think of myself as a super curious child or having a, you know, super curious childhood as I came towards towards the end of my high school in Germany, there was some.

[00:14:08] Some things that it clicked for me, for example, I had periods where I was not very good at math periods where I was incredibly good at math. And I remember in a math exam, it was one of those. You have three subjects that you study very deeply and with whom it was math history and something else. Um, and then you take long, long exams in, in, in those areas.

[00:14:35] And I remember I was in one exam that had to do with functional analysis and I looked at the problem and I remember, or that something occurred to me that if I apply something from geometry, I can solve this problem. That will be an unconventional way of going about it. But I knew that was the right solution.

[00:14:54] So I did. And all of a sudden, you know, it occurred to me how these things that you study in isolation. I'm not isolated. We just have not connected them. Well, I have not connected them in my, in my thinking in my brain. And by doing this, I actually, all of a sudden was a better mathematician because it enriched the way I was able to solve that particular problem.

[00:15:18] Absolutely. That, that triggered something. And I knew that those connections are incredibly valuable and they're probably that there are a lot of connections out there that need to be made. And I have not yet made, 

[00:15:30] Hadley: [00:15:30] let's go back to this the 17 year old out of, uh, now, uh, and, and this, this conversation with your dad, but why, why is that conversation so memorable?

[00:15:38] Because 

[00:15:38] Oliver: [00:15:38] I taught at universities before I joined SAS in 2002, and I often get asked by students, so what should I do? How should I choose modern professional path? Should I focus on this area or that area? When I think back to that compensation and I enjoyed it. That part of my education and forestry a lot.

[00:15:59] The reason why I chose that particular program was because it was really, really difficult to get into. It was actually a government program, your government employee, as you go through those four years of forest management training, getting into was difficult. But once you're in you kind of guaranteed a job at the end.

[00:16:18] So it was kind of high risk getting in, but then good reward. So I sort of thought, yeah, I like to be in the woods. And I like to take a chance on this. If I get in, it's kind of a sign, isn't it? Because you have to go to days and days of, of testing and rigorous examinations, whether you, whether you get into the program.

[00:16:39] So I sort of confirmation that I've made the right choice. So I used to the, the, the, the examinations as sort of a proving ground, or, you know, to bet myself against that aspiration in hindsight, How can you make a decision about your professional life at that age? I was not possible. You don't know what you need to know what you don't know, what you don't know and why does this, that conversation what's so important is because I thought at the time, this was exactly what I wanted to do.

[00:17:12] What I needed to open myself up to is if you go down a path, all the other things that come your way, that you might see that might interest you, and you might want to pursue those as well. So to keep yourself open, to make changes now, in, in, in the culture I grew up in, you take a path, you choose a path and you are very likely staying with that path.

[00:17:40] So for me to, you know, at age 27, leave Germany moved my life to the United States. Uh, come here. Um, That was a big step, but it was not, it's not usual, not usual for the sort of the environment in which I, I grew up in. It was the first time I was on a plane. I've never flown when I came to U yes, that was the first time I stepped on an airplane.

[00:18:07] And so that was a pretty big step, you know, leaving the country. 

[00:18:10] Hadley:...